‘I spend much less time self-sabotaging’: Robbie Williams and Joe Lycett on making artwork | Robbie Williams

Joe Lycett and Robbie Williams had been introduced collectively by Instagram. Final August, Williams posted a portray of a small, saintly wanting baby (not him), and captioned it with an account of how he had as soon as made the error of studying the feedback under a Mail On-line piece. “It was hellish,” he wrote. “The individual (me) they had been describing was probably the most horrendous individual that ever walked the planet. I used to be crestfallen.” At this level, Williams thought the most effective plan could be to learn some feedback about individuals who “are good, salt-of-the-earth folks”. So he regarded up a bit about Ant and Dec. “Certainly to God nobody can hate Ant and Dec,” he thought to himself. However no. “The second remark stated: ‘I hate these two nearly as a lot as I hate that fats c*** Robbie Williams.’”

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Joe Lycett visitor edits the Observer New Overview – editor’s letter

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Whats up,

Once I was requested to be the visitor editor for this version of the New Overview journal I used to be astonished and sickened. “What’s that?” I stated to my PR supervisor whereas pouring Black Tower Pinot Noir into empty Châteauneuf-du-Pape bottles.

“It’s a prestigious publication inserted into the Observer with options and photos,” he replied.

I couldn’t imagine the cheek of the person. He effectively is aware of that I don’t imagine in enhancing. Like all rightwing commentators, I imagine that any type of enhancing is an assault on freedom of speech. I choose issues to be “unfiltered”, “unleashed”, and “uncensored” (and, if you happen to’re , “uncut”). Deleting an misguided semicolon is simply how Stalin started his a long time of terror.;

After a lot forwards and backwards, the leftists on the New Overview stated that my insistence on not enhancing this challenge made the duty of me enhancing this challenge “inconceivable” and “frankly, ridiculous”. Precisely what you’d anticipate from these lazy liberal comrade snowbastards.

“How about, Joe, you write a inconsiderate stream of consciousness piece and ship it to go behind a paywall at Mail+,” they stated, “and as well as we’ll dedicate this challenge of the New Overview to your own home metropolis of Birmingham?” My high-intensity prescription antihistamines had kicked in by that time, and I agreed.

So, in opposition to my higher judgment, this challenge is all about Birmingham. Inside you’ll discover a piece about allotments by Rebecca Nicholson, writing concerning the state of town from Brummies Nathalie Olah and Kirsty Bosley, a dialog I had with Robbie Williams about artwork, and different contributions from Kofi Stone, Claire Douglass, Munya Chawawa, Katherine Ryan, Janice Connolly, Matt Arnold, Matt Nation, and an unique cowl painted by me. If that’s not your factor then I’ve written the Mail+ piece and so they guarantee me they’ll run it on one of many weeks Boris forgets to submit his copy (ie subsequent week).

Amongst those that replied to his publish had been Alan Carr, Piers Morgan, and Lycett, who stated it made him snort out loud – and so started their (probably considerably unlikely) friendship. The comic additionally paints and makes ceramics (you’ll be able to see his “after Hockney” portrait of Harry Kinds, a impolite vase he might – or might not – have designed for H&M, and several other different works on his web site); in 2018, his sculpture Chris was accepted by the Royal Academy for inclusion in its Summer time Exhibition. By September, Lycett had visited Williams at residence in west London, at which level they found how effectively they acquired on, and the way comparable their artwork is. Williams’s Inklings illustrations, like Lycett’s large acrylics, have a pop artwork sensibility that pokes enjoyable at celeb tradition and the so-called wellness trade.

For this interview, Lycett and Williams talked over Zoom. Lycett, who’s 35, was at residence in Birmingham, in a pink room with an enormous cabinet during which he homes a few of his beloved outlandish stage outfits; Williams, 50, was in London, the place he lives together with his spouse, Ayda Area, and 4 youngsters (considered one of whom appeared fleetingly on display screen). Their dialog touched on relationship, synthetic intelligence and the character of fame, in addition to some scabrous celeb gossip that it will in all probability be extraordinarily unwise to repeat right here.

Joe Lycett:

You began posting artwork on Instagram final Could. Is that proper?

Robbie Williams:

Sure. I’ve been doing stuff [making art] since 2006, however I hadn’t put something on the market.

However then I had this joke concerning the Olympics/the Ozempics [the weight-loss drug], and for some purpose I used to be fearful. I assumed: “I should put this on the market now, or another person will both steal it or suppose I’ve stolen it.” I wasn’t planning on following it up however I acquired such good feedback – and that fed my ego. I assumed: “I’m going to do some extra of those. Individuals are happy with me.” As of right now, that joke has had 15,746 likes. I don’t do pictures of me on tour any extra, actually. It’s all of the artwork. Earlier than this, I didn’t actually do social media. I’ve at all times been puzzled by it. I exist in a really 90s character, one who doesn’t get it in any respect.

JL: Dangle on. Aren’t you on Twitter?

RW: No, I’m not on Twitter [now known as X]. It will break my profession. The final time I used to be on it, I did a tweet that stated: “I fairly fancy entering into shoplifting. Has anybody acquired any good options for shoplifting?” The one that runs Gail’s, the bakery, stated: that is terrible. It is a pop star who lives in a bubble. How dare he? I noticed the backlash, and I used to be, like: “I don’t suppose Twitter is for me.” I acquired my fingers burned.

JL: However that’s more and more what it’s like on the market. It’s bizarre for me as a result of after I was beginning out as a comic, earlier than I had any recognition, I had perhaps just a few hundred followers, and I’d use it to check out jokes. It was a type of writers’ room, all these half-baked concepts. However checked out retrospectively, with just a few extra followers, it’s a writers’ room filled with hazard. However the shoplifting stuff, that’s attention-grabbing. Are you conversant in the artist Foka Wolf [the Birmingham billboard prankster ]? He has a complete strand of labor about shoplifting; he says it ought to change into extra normalised. You’re in an analogous house.

RW: I’ve simply had a take a look at his Insta web page, and I already prefer it. However I’m Robbie Williams, so I’m in a sure field. I’m in a pop star field, and if the pop star begins performing in a different way from the way in which a pop star ought to, then it causes confusion, which I like, nevertheless it may also get me cancelled.

JL: One factor I’ve observed about your artwork is that almost all of it’s humorous. Is that one thing you are feeling you’ll be able to’t do by means of your music? I imply, there are parts of humour in your lyrics, however they’re extra amusing observations than punchlines.

RW: OK, so after I was 10, and at main faculty, we camped in north Wales for seven days. On the finish of the vacation, we had been allowed to enter city and a few individuals had some pocket cash and a few individuals didn’t; I didn’t. Anyway, we had been within the store, and I noticed this poster on the wall. It was of a prepare that had crashed as a result of a bridge had collapsed. It was the Eighteen Nineties or one thing, and there was this man with an enormous prime hat on, and he was wanting on the scene, and it simply stated [what he was thinking, which was]: oh shit, oh shit. I assumed it was the funniest factor I’d ever seen, and I stared at it for ages and ages. There was additionally this e-book, once more after I was about 10, of humorous issues individuals had written on partitions. I suppose each these impressed me to do what I’m doing now. I don’t know if there’s one thing about not having the ability to be humorous in my music; it’s not like I’m burning to do extra humorous lyrics. However on this medium, I’m nonetheless that 10-year-old.

JL: Even in my world, if you happen to’re a musical comic, individuals roll their eyes a bit. Music isn’t the place for humorous.

RW: It’s type of like a prop gag, isn’t it? The place I peaked with this (humorous lyrics) was my track Rudebox [from 2006]. It was meant to be whimsical and foolish, nevertheless it was simply deemed foolish and was vilified.

JL: It’s form of what you had been speaking about earlier than: about being in your field. Doing one thing totally different isn’t allowed.

RW: I’m an enormous fan of surreal, of caprice, and I don’t suppose the music world takes to mad very effectively. It’s both Barbie Woman, which all of us get is foolish, or it’s not understood or appreciated.

JL: Comedies by no means win Oscars.

RW: Neither do motion movies. However I loved the final Mission Unattainable far more than I loved Oppenheimer. It was unbelievable escapism. However it received’t get anyplace close to the Oscars, as a result of motion is deemed a lesser artwork type – which is why I went on my Instagram with considered one of my indicators on a stick outdoors the Beverly Hills Resort that stated “Give Tom Cruise an Oscar already.” Simply give him the frigging Oscar, you pretentious clowns.

JL: Do you suppose he was appreciative of that?

RW: Nicely, I haven’t heard from him. However I actually meant it, and I’ll forgive Tom Cruise something as a result of he’s superb. So it’s all good.

JL: At what stage did you resolve to get in contact with me? What was the set off?

RW: The set off was seeing you on tv and liking what you do, after which it was to do with my artwork, and me considering: “Oh, Joe’s doing this too.” So I reached out. Individuals do attain out on social media, don’t they? It’s the creative equal of sliding into somebody’s – what’s it referred to as? – DMs. I missed the entire sliding-into-DMs-phase, as a result of I’ve been in a relationship with my spouse for 18 years. Fortunately, I’ve by no means needed to take care of that.

JL: It’s harmful. I’m additionally, as you already know, in a long-term relationship now, so I don’t want to fret about it. However after I was [single], I didn’t slide into individuals’s DMs. It was utilizing Hinge and Grindr and people apps, and other people would screenshot after which publish the chat you had been having with them. I’m not a superb flirt, so individuals seeing my blurts was…

RW: Yeah, that’s abusive and unkind.

JL: So, the artwork…

RW: Sure. I’ve acquired these Inklings that I do. I’ve acquired 2,500 of them, however not all of them are Instagram grid-worthy. I publish day by day, and now I’ve acquired slight anxiousness that I’m going to expire of excellent ones to place up, however I’m having fun with the method. I’ve acquired to attract some extra, or give you different issues to placed on the grid, and since I’m an addict [Williams has struggled with drugs, alcohol, food and prescription drugs], I suppose I’m hooked on social media proper now. There’s your headline.

JL: [Laughing] Nicely, I concur. As a result of I feel Instagram has made me extra prolific as an artist. You get that dopamine hit from the response, and also you need extra of that, so that you make extra artwork. There was a bit – the one I spent the longest time on. It was a portray of Jenny Beavan [the Oscar-winning costume designer], who I dwell with after I’m in London. I spent ages on the folds in her denims and it acquired a lot much less engagement than stuff that had taken me 10 minutes. I discovered it irritating. It was annoying. However nonetheless, with out Instagram I’d in all probability make quite a bit much less artwork than I do.

RW: I additionally spend a variety of time on my captions, which have change into diary-like, and what I observed was that no person was speaking about my Inklings. They had been responding to what I’d written. I used to be feeling like my Inklings had been being ignored! I put a PS on considered one of my captions: can somebody say one thing about my Inklings please?

JL: Sure, I’ve been writing foolish blocks of textual content – flights of fancy primarily – about the place the work come from, and also you’re proper, they change into greater than the publish itself. However if you’re making artwork, is there a psychological well being profit too?

RW: I used to be with Vic Reeves in, in all probability, 1995, and he informed me that he creates one thing day by day, and I bear in mind considering: “If solely I used to be proficient, I’d try this.” And now I discover myself creating one thing day by day, and escaping into creation in my thoughts, and the extra time I spent doing that, the much less time I spend self-sabotaging, or fascinated with all of the anxieties of life, the foibles of being me and inside my mind.

JL: I learn someplace that one artwork expertise monthly can add as much as 10 years to your life – and it doesn’t should be good work; there isn’t a correlation between the standard of the work and the advantages.

RW: Wow. In that case, I’m going to dwell till I’m about 130. However it’s so gratifying and I’m so fortunate to have the time to do it. It offers me dramatic goal and I really feel very, very fulfilled. I don’t understand how I existed with out doing this. Once I was making an attempt to place an album collectively, you’ve a few days writing songs, and you then would possibly do nothing for a few months, and I don’t know what I did with myself in between. I acquired on the aircraft again from Hong Kong just lately, and it was a 14-hour flight, and I spent 12 hours of it creating this jacket [a patchwork garment he’s designing]. I didn’t swap on the TV.

JL: The artwork modified for me after I had a chat with Mr Bingo [the illustrator and artist]. He gave me the concept of promoting prints of my work in lockdown, and now it has change into one other income stream for me. It’s a little bit of a machine, reasonably than the psychological well being factor it was.

RW: I’m hooked on the win – and the way is the win measured? Ultimately I’ll make my Inklings that can be purchased. It’s not simply the cash going into my checking account; it’s extra to do with individuals liking them. I don’t suppose you’re allowed to say that as an artist. But when I’m not going to be lauded as a reputable artist, I’ll select to be a industrial one as an alternative.

JL: I haven’t requested you about your exhibition in Amsterdam. How’s it going?

RW: Rather well. It felt actually good. As a substitute of getting an existential disaster, which is what often occurs, I simply thought: I don’t know what this implies, nevertheless it’s good.

JL: I did an exhibition final yr with my mum [Helen, a retired graphic designer], and what was unusual about it was you’ve all of the build-up, like you’ve for a gig, the identical type of nervousness, the build-up of adrenaline. However there’s no efficiency. The showing-off has been executed already.

RW: I didn’t have any nervousness. The exhibition isn’t going to facilitate the way forward for my youngsters and our life-style. I did learn some feedback from the museum, and so they had been all very good, aside from one which stated, ‘Individuals spend years learning positive artwork and so they can’t get anyplace and Robbie Williams does some doodles and he’s in a museum.’

JL: We’ve acquired to complete this in a minute, and we should always speak about Birmingham earlier than we do. You grew up in Stoke, I do know, however I’m questioning when you have any hyperlinks to Birmingham, particularly to do with artwork within the metropolis.

RW: Nicely, the one factor that involves thoughts is Miss Moneypenny’s, the membership. It was pivotal for me. I went from being this good boy in a Catholic faculty in Stoke to being this one that had simply bombed a gram of velocity and had three E’s in my pockets, dancing in my Vivienne Westwood bondage trousers and shirt with a excessive collar and tie that had the identical gingham sample. I went with a bunch of individuals from Warrington who would lease a van, and they’d decide me up at a service station, and off we might go.

JL: Wow! I’ve actually by no means heard of it. I can’t imagine I don’t understand it… it’s acquired its personal Wikipedia web page.

RW: I bear in mind spending a variety of time in homosexual golf equipment. For the primary 18 months of Take That’s existence, we did homosexual golf equipment. I had the most effective time, since you weren’t in worry of your life. The love and acceptance that I discovered there, I’ll at all times be glad about it.

JL: I really feel the identical. Any metropolis I am going to, they’re a secure house for me: a haven.

RW: Anyway, I’m away for 2 weeks, after which I’m again in London. I’d like to see you then, Joe. I do actually get pleasure from your organization – and hopefully neither of us will probably be cancelled after this seems.

JL: Sure. Fingers crossed!